Integrating Newtonian and Quantum Physics, Analog and Digital, and the Gross and Subtle Realm
The following is a short Q&A with ChatGPT on a proposed paper I am discussing with British mathematician John Abrahams. We are trying to show a correlation between classical and quantum physics, the analog and digital, and the gross and subtle realms.
Gross vs. Subtle Realms?
ChatGPT said:
The terms Gross vs. Subtle Realms come from various philosophical, spiritual, and metaphysical traditions, including Vedanta, Tantra, and certain Western esoteric systems. Here’s a breakdown of their meanings:
Gross Realm (Sthula)
- Refers to the physical, material world.
- Includes everything perceivable by the five senses — objects, bodies, nature, and physical space.
- Governed by cause-and-effect laws of physics and biology.
- Often associated with survival, tangible actions, and empirical knowledge.
- In Hindu and Buddhist philosophy, this is the Sthula Sharira (gross body).
Subtle Realm (Sukshma)
- Refers to non-physical dimensions, including mental, emotional, and energetic states.
- Includes thoughts, dreams, imagination, intuition, and higher consciousness.
- Often linked to meditation, mysticism, and inner experiences.
- In Vedanta and Yoga, the Sukshma Sharira (subtle body) consists of the mind, intellect, and vital energy (prana).
Beyond Subtle: The Causal Realm (Karana)
Some traditions also include a third realm:
- Causal Realm (Karana) — The source of both gross and subtle realms, representing pure consciousness or the unmanifested potential.
Would you like an explanation tied to a specific tradition, such as Advaita Vedanta, Buddhism, or Western mysticism?
You said:
Can we make a connection between the subtle and gross realm and quantum physics?
ChatGPT said:
Yes, many thinkers have drawn connections between the subtle and gross realms from spiritual traditions and quantum physics. While these connections are mostly philosophical rather than strictly scientific, they offer interesting ways to think about consciousness, reality, and existence.
1. The Gross Realm & Classical Physics
- The gross realm aligns with classical physics (Newtonian mechanics), which describes the macroscopic world.
- Objects behave in predictable ways, governed by cause and effect.
- This corresponds to the physical/material world that we perceive with our senses.
2. The Subtle Realm & Quantum Physics
- The subtle realm aligns with quantum mechanics, where reality behaves in non-intuitive ways.
- Key quantum concepts that resonate with subtle reality:
- Wave-Particle Duality: Particles exist as both waves (potential states) and discrete objects.
- Superposition: Quantum states exist in multiple possibilities until measured.
- Quantum Entanglement: Two particles can remain connected across space and time, suggesting an interconnected reality.
- Observer Effect: Consciousness or measurement seems to “collapse” a quantum wave function into a definite state, mirroring ideas of mind shaping reality in mystical traditions.
3. Consciousness as the Link?
- Some interpretations of quantum mechanics (such as the Von Neumann-Wigner hypothesis) suggest that consciousness plays a role in “collapsing” reality from possibility into actuality.
- This aligns with spiritual perspectives where the mind, intention, or awareness influences reality (e.g., in Vedanta, Buddhist Yogacara, or Taoist thought).
- David Bohm’s “Implicate Order” proposes that reality has both a visible “gross” order and a deeper, interconnected “subtle” order — similar to how spiritual traditions describe a hidden energy or intelligence behind the material world.
4. Energy Fields & Prana in Physics?
- Concepts like prana (life energy), chi, or etheric fields are sometimes compared to:
- Zero-point energy (the energy present in empty space).
- Quantum fields (underlying the existence of all particles).
- Dark energy (which influences cosmic expansion).
- While mainstream physics does not yet validate these claims, it is an area of ongoing speculation.
5. A Causal (Beyond-Quantum) Reality?
- Many mystical traditions propose a causal realm (pure consciousness, the source of both gross and subtle realms).
- Some physicists explore ideas like:
- Simulation Hypothesis (suggesting a deeper reality creating our experience).
- Non-dual consciousness models (suggesting a fundamental awareness underlying reality).
- Penrose & Hameroff’s Orch-OR theory, which suggests consciousness is tied to quantum processes in the brain.
Final Thought
While mainstream science does not directly confirm a subtle realm, quantum physics opens doors to perspectives that blur the line between material reality and consciousness. It challenges the assumption that the physical world is completely separate from the mind, energy, and deeper levels of existence — echoing ancient spiritual insights.
Would you like to explore a specific angle in more depth? Perhaps quantum consciousness, Eastern philosophy, or specific physicists’ interpretations?
You said:
Can we make a connect between classical and quantum physics on the one hand, and the dichotomy between analog and binary on the other?
ChatGPT said:
Yes! There’s a fascinating parallel between classical vs. quantum physics and the analog vs. binary (digital) dichotomy. While these comparisons aren’t exact, they offer a conceptual bridge between physics and information theory. Let’s break it down:
1. Classical Physics → Analog Systems
- Continuity: Classical physics describes the world as continuous and deterministic, much like an analog system, where values can take on an infinite number of states.
- Predictability: In classical physics, an object’s position and velocity can be known exactly (given enough data).
- Cause & Effect: Classical mechanics follows strict Newtonian determinism — like how an analog signal smoothly transitions between states.
📡 Example: Think of radio waves or vinyl records — both store and transmit information as continuous variations in waves.
2. Quantum Physics → Digital/Binary Systems
- Discrete Nature: Quantum mechanics reveals that nature is quantized, meaning certain properties (like energy levels) come in distinct packets, just like binary (0s and 1s) in digital computing.
- Superposition & Bit States: Quantum bits (qubits) can exist in a superposition of 0 and 1, much like how a quantum particle can exist in multiple states until measured.
- Probabilistic vs. Deterministic: Quantum mechanics is fundamentally probabilistic, mirroring how digital computing simplifies information into binary choices but can store vast probabilistic data using algorithms.
💾 Example: Digital music (MP3) stores information in discrete numerical values, unlike analog vinyl records, which use smooth, continuous waves.
3. The Bridge: Quantum Computing as an Analog-Digital Hybrid?
- Quantum computing offers a bridge because it blends features of both classical (digital) and quantum (analog) worlds:
- Superposition (continuous like analog, but collapses to discrete states like digital).
- Quantum entanglement (nonlocal correlations, a property absent in both traditional analog and digital systems).
- Quantum gates (manipulating qubits in ways that classical binary computing cannot).
🚀 Big Idea: Quantum computation could be seen as a higher-dimensional “analog” process, but when measured, it collapses into discrete digital outcomes.
Jan Krikke, John Abramson